Is Your Girlfriend or Wife a Professional Victim?
Does your girlfriend or wife blame you for everything that’s wrong in the relationship, even her bad behaviors? Does she refuse to take responsibility for her own actions, especially the hurtful ones? Do you frequently feel forced into a role of contrition in which you have to make up for some wrong or “owe” your girlfriend or wife?
If so, you may be involved with a woman who is a professional victim. Don’t be fooled, she is no victim. Victim-hood is a powerful role. In fact, women who play the victim are often the aggressor in relationships. They play the “victim” to manipulate and control others by holding you emotionally hostage.
Professional victims are stealth bullies. Being caught in a never ending blame game with one of these women is a form of emotional abuse for the man at whom she points her finger in accusation.
The following characteristics are signs that your girlfriend or wife may be a professional victim:
1) She never acknowledges when she hurts others. She has exclusive rights to the role of “injured party.” When you call her on her behavior, she provides ample excuses for why she’s not accountable. The excuses she provides assign blame for her actions to someone else, usually the person she’s wronged. It’s always your fault or someone else’s fault, but never, ever is it her fault.
2) The victim must be victimized. If you’re not an abusive person, she’ll pull it out of you in order to play the victim script she has in her head. For example, she needles and needles and needles one of your sore spots, until you can’t take it any more and snap at her in defense.
Presto! She just got you to “victimize” her–never mind the previous 2 hours in which she psychologically tormented and bullied you into it. She needs to play innocent victim to someone’s bad guy. It’s the foundation of her identity.
This is a very primitive defense mechanism called projective identification, which, if you’re on the receiving end, is truly awful in that it makes you feel like the crazy person. It’s a self-fulfilling prophesy whereby she believes you’re a “bad guy” and she’s a “victim.” She then behaves or interacts with you in such a way that you change your behavior in response to her actions and become the “bad guy.” A telltale sign is that you feel like you’re being coerced into being someone that you’re not. It’s highly, highly emotionally abusive.
3) She blames others and circumstances for her own shortcomings or failures. The professional victim lives in “Never-Never Take Personal Responsibility Land,” which is bordered to the North by “The Land of If Only.” This allows her to blame her parents, siblings, co-workers, bosses, professors and you for her life, career and relationships not being as she thinks they should be.
She’d be running the business if only her boss recognized her talents. She’d have graduated from culinary school and been wildly successful if her prof hadn’t looked at her cross-eyed. She’d have sex with you more often if you did more of x, y, and z. Don’t fall for this malarkey, men. She’s right in that there’s someone to blame for her sad life. She need only look in the mirror to direct her blame accurately.
4) She admires and respects people who actually treat her badly. This is a fascinating aspect of the professional victim: They defend those who harm, exploit and bully them and vilify and lash out at those who want to help and care for them. She may fondly describe a relative or ex-boyfriend who sounds like a real S.O.B. and follow it up with, “but he’s such a good person.” Meanwhile, you bend over backward to tiptoe around her extreme sensitivities and she accuses you of “beating her down” and “not being supportive.” Huh?
The fact that she admires and respects bullies and people who abuse their power is a huge red flag because we emulate those we admire. Let me make this point crystal clear, SHE ADMIRES BULLIES AND ABUSERS BECAUSE SHE IS REALLY AN EMOTIONALLY ABUSIVE BULLY IN VICTIM’S CLOTHING.
It’s impossible to have a loving relationship of equals with a professional victim. She goes through life feeling slighted and angry, never taking responsibility for her actions or life. Good luck trying to talk to her about this. You’ll meet with extreme defensiveness and more blaming behaviors. Her only identity is that of victim: If she doesn’t believe she’s being victimized, then who is she? Someone who treats other people like crap and who is pissing her life away. It’s a matter of psychological self-preservation versus ego annihilation.
You can’t have a healthy and happy relationship with someone who holds you hostage and controls you through guilt, emotional blackmail, and blame. This type of person rarely changes and usually has characteristics of one of the dramatic cluster B personality disorders, including Borderline Personality Disorder, Narcissistic Personality Disorder, Histrionic Personality Disorder, Anti-Social Personality Disorder or some variation.
If you’re involved with one of these women, I encourage you to reconsider the relationship. When I come across them in life, I try to avoid them altogether or, at the very least, minimize contact. It’s really the only way to deal with them.
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Dr. Tara J. Palmatier, PsyD helps individuals work through their relationship and codependency issues via telephone or Skype. She specializes in helping men and women trying to break free of an abusive relationship, cope with the stress of an abusive relationship or heal from an abusive relationship. She combines practical advice, emotional support and goal-oriented outcomes. Please visit the Schedule a Session page for professional inquiries.
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Shrink4Men 
The problem with dating someone with BPD is that you want with all of your heart for it to be true. When she tells you that no one understands her except you, that she doesn’t love anyone else like she loves you, and that she will do anything she can to make up all the wrongs she’s done just to stay with you, you really want to believe her.
My ex told me that when she got angry, that it wasn’t her, but that something took her over and that I should just ignore everything she said because she said it was like a “demon” takes hold of her and she doesn’t remember what happens.
Being a believer, I do believe in the other world. I didn’t necessarily believe that it was a demon, but I did believe her when she said it wasn’t her. That’s how she trapped me.
I had to realize that this was as much a part of her as the loving side. I had to stop fooling myself into believing that living with Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde wouldn’t be so bad.
At least you had someone who didn’t exclusively blame. Mine used to explain it by saying I brought out the “Bad Mildred” (not real name) I could almost buy it except for the fact that, without exception, ALL those in her inner circle brought out “Bad Mildred”- as well.
Daric,
She said it was a demon, and to think I referred to mine, during our break up, as “Lucifer”…the angel of light that looked so beautiful on the outside, and yet on the insider was an entirely different story. Mine was so shocked when i called her Lucifer, but it just accurately slipped out of my mouth.
Perhaps there is more to it than one may think. It has been said that these women have “radar”, and I wonder what “force” gives them the power to have radar. I wonder how women across the entire planet could act exactly the same way…say the same type of things…EVEN THOUGH THEY NEVER MET.
They also say that these women don’t do these things consciouly, so I really wonder what intelligent force is behind their automatic actions? I suppose the social sciences can define it however they wish–attempting to logically explain these things. Yet, sometimes science is far more difficult to believe and trust than “faith doctrines.
If you are a believer, then consider the big bang theory: “We all just magically appeared as a result of a big bang”. Or, try the tad pole theory: “We all come from a tad pole”. YEA–
One may argue that it takes far more faith to believe those things than it does to believe in a creator. And as one fully considers the patterns and nature of the bpd, the idea or the concept of a demon may not be as far fetched as believing some of the alternative explanations.
Big Bang Theory was created by Monsignor Georges Henri Joseph Édouard Lemaître, a Belgian Roman Catholic priest, honorary prelate, professor of physics and astronomer at the Catholic University of Leuven.
A ‘priest’ made the Big Bang theory.
Just thought I’d throw that in to mess you up and promote convulsions of synaptic discourse.
That’s interesting–
LOL…no convulsions of synaptic discourse though.
2 types of people, Loving & Controlling. These Controllers have an agenda, they are actually the weakest saddest humans on earth.
SAME SAME WORDS AND BEHAVIOR USED WITH ME. Then 2 days later she moved out and left me like I was nothing and nobody. Then to be with one of my “friends” in a relationship less than a week later. Toxic bro. Toxic toxic.
http://www.bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a101.htm
In the beginning, you will feel a rapidly accelerating sense of compassion because she is a master at portraying herself as she “victim of love” and you are saving her. But listen closely to how she sees herself as a victim. As her peculiar emotional invasion advances upon you, you will hear how no one understands her – except you. Other people have been “insensitive.” She has been betrayed, just when she starts trusting people. But there is something “special” about you, because “you really seem to know her.”
It is this intense way she has of bearing down on you emotionally that can feel very seductive. You will feel elevated, adored, idealized – almost worshiped, maybe even to the level of being uncomfortable. And you will feel that way quickly. It may seem like a great deal has happened between the two of you in a short period of time, because conversation is intense, her attention, and her eyes are so deeply focused on you.
Here is a woman who may look like a dream come true. She not only seems to make you the center of her attention, but she even craves listening to your opinions, thoughts and ideas. It will seem like you have really found your heart’s desire.
Like many things that seems too good to be true, this is. This is borderline personality disorder.
Ewww, it’s so eerie it makes me shudder.
Thanks for the link NoseRider! That was eye opening for me to say the least about my ex BP1 I remember her saying (as we were having sex!)”don’t you feel lucky to have this” and “You better take care of that p**sy boy or someone else will…’ I needed to run for the hills then.
Hi NoSeRider,
I right about the very same topic in this post:
These individuals real others in by making them feel special and then treat them like garbage. It’s incredibly insidious. Bottom line: If things seem to be moving too fast and too intensely, you may be dealing with one of these emotional predators. The higher the pedestal they put you on in the beginning, the further your fall to earth will be. Ouch
@NoseRider– Exactly the thing my friend is experiencing right now and he has no idea what kind of danger he is in. Me and several other friends had all noticed a very ugly vibe about her, I discovered shrink for men last week and so much I read is exactly how I saw her from the few interractions I have with her.
Right now, my friend has unfriended me but by her order and she was watching over his shoulder on the computer she insists on sharing when he opens his social media page which makes me fear she has control on his account and private message box so I cannot say anything.
I see I am the only friend blocked out from his friends list and I accepted her request which she did so she can watch me but really I and 2 others accepted so we can watch how frequently her mood falls from sickly sweet to verbally evil and so far she’d flipped out twice a week and yesterday they celebrated their first month together and she is already planning out their decade she expects out of him.
It’s the mouse in a sticky glue trap dilemma, he can’t be helped until he is aware of what is going to happen to him next when she feels she doesn’t need to glimmer/glamour him anymore and have him locked in one really big sham to his emotions and it hurts me terribly to witness this, let it happen as it will…
Man I went through that for 6 years
I have a hard time ascribing BPD or some some sort of mental illness to people who are proffessional victims. In my opinion, proffessional victims are people of poor character – end of story. I take a conservative behavioralist view of these things. Always have, always will.
It’s a lot easier to make a decision about evil than it is psychologize. Just learn the chareacteristics of proffessional victims, and do your utmost to stay away from them.
I don’t think of BPD, NPD etc. as mental illnesses Many of them function at work, etc. I think of these people as having characterological disturbances or, as you put it, “poor character.”
Characterological traits are very difficult to change, even when a the person wants to, which is why I agree with your advice to recognize the signs/traits and then get the hell away from them.
I was in a relationship with someone for a few months, and it was great at first. Then, slowly, everything started to become my or someone else’s fault, and that was why she got angry and emotionally abusive with me. She would lash out and get angry at me over the smallest things, and most of the time she was angry at me for something someone else allegedly did to her.
I thought something was wrong with me; that it was my fault that the relationship started to get rocky and take a nose dive.
I grew up in a religious environment (I’m a Latter-Day Saint) however my family isn’t very religious. I spent many hours meditating and praying to know what it is I am doing wrong and why I seem to hurt her.
Then, one day, I was reading about borderline personality disorder in an assigned book for English Class. I had a lump in my throat, but at the same time, I felt like my eyes were opening. I was (and still am) 99 percent sure that this is the condition she has. (I don’t say 100 percent because, well, I am not a physician). She has all the symptoms and characteristics of this disorder, which is what makes me believe that this is her condition.
I know that BPD is a medical condition just like any other, and I don’t hold anything against her. I prayed a lot, and the only solution that I could come up with was that we had to end the relationship. I couldn’t live forever with someone who constantly abused me emotionally. And I couldn’t make my children live through that as well.
The hardest thing was trying to tell her that it was over. Everytime she would yell and get angry at me (for whatever reason, if there was one) I would try to be patient and not get angry, and if I started to get frustrated I had to leave the room. When I would tell her that we couldn’t be together anymore, she would cry in my arms and tell me she was deeply regretful and sorry and that she wants to change. She would tell me that I was the love of her life, and that she only loves me and could only love me.
If you find a girl like this, listen to your head, not your heart. Sometimes, they’re one and the same. But don’t let her convince you to stay in the relationship if you know you don’t want to be.
Hi Daric,
I think you made the right choice by ending the relationship. Your advice to listen to head and not the heart when dealing with an individual like your ex is spot on. You can’t love another person enough to make them whole. You can’t love another person enough to make them stop abusing you.
It doesn’t matter whether you ex had a formal diagnosis or not. BPD and NPD are often misdiagnosed by professionals. Alternatively, she may never receive a formal diagnosis because she doesn’t believe anything is wrong with her and therefore won’t seek help.
You don’t have to be a credentialed therapist to recognize abusive, hurtful and unhealthy behaviors. The label, whether it’s BPD, NPD, bully, professional victim, emotional predator, is irrelevant. A label or diagnosis is just an abbreviated way to understand what you’re dealing with.
If what you read here, on other sites and books resonates with you and your experience with your ex and helps you that’s all that really matters.
Kind Regards,
Dr Tara
I’m fighting that issue right now. I’m going through a break up with a professional victim, I’m finding myself deeply worried about her. Scared she will hurt herself or get further involved with the people that hurt her life. I’ve dealt with this for four years now. Yesterday I called it quits. It’s like my mind is conditioned. I’m not sad because I’ve grown to dislike her dishonesty for the sake of being a victim. She is a compulsive liar to avoid responsibility and I could never hold her accountable for the horrible things she did to herself. She always finds a way to make it someone else’s fault, then when you talk and force her to to say it, she automatically says “oh! I’m worthless, I’m going to kill myself now” or “go do Meth” or “go screw some guy” Suddenly she’s the victim!!!! And I tear myself up for it. This article was a light from above in my life. It was word for word my situation. Thank you Dr. Tara
Wow, everything you wrote i have in my relationship. I put up with all the bullcrap because she saying “losing the love of her life is unbearable” melted my heart. Love of her life? Who the fuck treats his/her significant other like crap and call it love of his/her life?? I don’t understand why she acts this way if she is scared of losing me? I disconnected my brain’s emotional part and voila! I won’t continue this toxic relationship because of empty flattering. Actions speak louder than words. If I feel like crap it is crap, no other way around. Thank you so much for sharing your story and insight!
Best wishes
WOW. This describes my ex-wife PERFECTLY. She was a true manipulator and proffessional victim. Her continual M.O. was to initiate a drama whereby she was the victim, so that she could gain something from the fallout.
Proffessional victims are RUTHLESS MANIPULATORS, and one thing I’ve noticed about them is that when their methods don’t work, they escalate the game and up the ante. That’s when they can become dangerous, using legal chicanery ir even violence to achieve their ends.
One of the things proffesional victims are great at (my ex was a real pro) is ‘Gaslighting.’ (As per the old 50’s movie.) They convince you that YOU’RE the sick one who needs help. As their M.O., proffesional victims often use the lingo of psychology from their own years of therapy, where they’ve had lots of help in discovering everything is everyone else’s fault. This is VERY important: Proffesional Victims often use the lingo of therapy as a weapon.
I think a lot of men fall for proffessional victims because of their chivalry instinct. We find a woman with ‘problems,’ then set out to solve her ‘problems.’ Soon enough, WE become the problem, and the PV plays her angle. PV’s are CON-ARTISTS, and they will strip you clean and move on to the next victim. That’s what they do.
“In Sheep’s Clothing: Understanding and Dealing with Manipulative People,” by George K. Simon Jr, is a GREAT book on this subject. In fact, it opened my eyes and got me through my divorce with my skin intact.
Hi metalman,
Proffesional Victims often use the lingo of therapy as a weapon. This is very, very true.
They learn just enough psycho-jargon to twist things around and manipulate others—this frequently includes their unwitting therapist. Alternatively, some professional victims use religion and quote the bible to control, abuse and manipulation. It’s just another variation of the same phenomenon.
I discuss this very thing in the following post:
Absolutely, my ex-wife is ADD, BiPolar, OCD, ODD, BPD (biological reasons here). The mother-in-law was institutionalized for months when my ex-wife was a child. Both very well versed in jargon. Beyond these two, look at the feminist based abuse rhetoric which is unfortunately accepted in law enforcement & courts. Reality gets twisted over & over to spare any accountability for a woman.
My education is in Computer Engineering. The closed-logic fallacy (damned if you do, damned if you don’t) of all this has proven mind blowing. Even when you do a point by point analysis with diagrams & reference to violations of their very definitions, these people will still attack. They hate being shown chicken & egg system dynamics. They abhor you when they are over-ridden by hard science (cross-correlate genetics & behavior studies).
It has taken a few years to figure out WTF just happened (to 26 years of my life). Figuring it out has been a valid activity & I thank Dr. T. & this site for support. As Dr. T. points out, your best bet is no contact. It is easy when you come to a full understanding of these women. Now I just have to stop flinching when a woman says hello to me (LOL).
Do BPD’s ever come back to abuse us
Hi Ted,
Sorry for my delayed reply. The answer to your question is YES. BPD’s are often like psychotic boomerangs. The more vigorously you throw them away from you, the harder they fly back at you.
Many, but not all, Borderlines (women and men) like to keep their exes in the cupboard for a rainy day. For example, they come back when they:
– want an ego boost after being rejected by a new target
– aren’t getting enough attention from their new target to satisfy them
– want to use you to make their new target jealous
– want or need something material from you like money, a place to stay, a car, a bill(s) paid, etc.
– want to make themselves feel desirable by reconfirming their ability to lure you back in
– are feeling bad and want to introject their inner pain, turmoil and chaos onto you
If your BPD comes sniffing back around my advice is don’t answer the door, the phone, the email or the text. Responding just to be nice lets them start their abuse all over again.
Good grief…while I see things i relate to in other posts, this one nails it, especially the part about badgering you into being what she thinks you are….
Its like this, even in the mundane, wife asks something (not permission type things, Im not her boss), and I disagree, she asks again, slightly changing the question to add “data” supporting her view…still I disagree, this iterates over and again until I get an edge in the old voice….her comment “Im JUST askin”…then it escalates as she says, “I cant even talk to you”….finally if I raise my voice, after the meandering twists and turns through anything and everything including the old molded mac and cheese in the sink 5 years ago, and I am supremely lost and frustrated, I yell (gasp) and guess what….yep….the yelling BECOMES the issue…the rest doesnt even matter anymore.
She can accomplish this in groups in “code”, many men wil agree their spouse can send messages of deep offense and challenge, and no one but you have a clue, so we are forced into being as they say “impeached on the stand” where a yes or a no both make us look equally neanderthal, and they elicit the sympathetic look from the others as the “jerk”, while not yelling, looks tense for no reason.
Its not about winning…but these are no win situations, and as you aptly put it, they are that way by design…its brilliant if it werent so insidious.
Hi Chris,
What you describe is maddening. These individuals are masters of the classic “no win” situation. The only way to “win” is by not playing.
Women and men with these personalities (or personality disorders) like to play psychological “tug of war.” You can each keep pulling in opposite directions with the knowledge that no matter how sane or right you are that she will twist things or you can simply “drop the rope” and let her metaphorically fall on her butt. This is kind of what jham123 describes in his above comment. He reports he’s stopped asking his wife “why” because he now knows “why,” which leaves her without a toehold to create new conflict that further portrays him as “the bad guy.”
I have found (im my personal nightmare) theirs both a front end game and a backend game, non reaction is the back end game, it evokes an even stronger response… non reaction i mean things like deferring conversation exiting calmly, or maintaining positive or happy attitude, or compromising in a way that quells the situation. I understand the thinking, don’t feed the bear, she will stop returning for food, but in my personal experience I have found its just hard coded, her brain is on level 5 big brother mode 24/7(tv show), especially in times shes stressed or unhappy, always 2 steps ahead, ie/ dishes wont be done unless she tells me to do them, in code of course(don’t want to walk on eggshells), world doesn’t turn, life doesn’t exist unless she orchestrates it, nothing exists until she walks into a room, In that she constantly creates chaos around her, crazy making. Life rattles the cage, bear will bite the closest person to them.
This is exactly what happened to me too. I might as well have tried communicating with the wall and it might have been more productive. Hell…I am out and I am still talking to the wall trying to understand something that is not understandable. The level he would go to to defend his fantasy land view was astounding. Issues could never be resolved because he had zero self insight and the blame game went on and on until I made it stop. What sucks it now we get stuck holding the bag of shit and they just jump to the next person who will try to love them. Poor sorry sucker doesn’t know what they are in for….
Now to start cleaning up the fucking mess and moving on….Ugh. And to think at one point I thought I would never have to do this again…Thought he was what I had looked for…In the beginning he was…Beware of something that looks too good to be true…
Wow! I have struggled to put to words what has been happening for the last 23 years and this article has hit it on the head. Chris, you have taken it to the next level!
“after the meandering twists and turns through anything and everything including the old molded mac and cheese in the sink 5 years ago, and I am supremely lost and frustrated, I yell (gasp) and guess what….yep….the yelling BECOMES the issue…the rest doesnt even matter anymore.”
Dr. Tara,
Thank you, Thank you, Thank you! This is my first post and as recently as this past Monday I never knew just what I was up against. You have given me peace of mind just when I thought I was on the brink of losing it!
Thank you!
-Dave
Welcome David K, Welcome the healing side of things.
Keep reading, your peace of mind has only gotten a small “Piece” you need a large Piece in order to feel real Peace.
Start in January and read every single article…….Peace awaits you.
You’re welcome, Dave. Hang in there and please use this site to connect with other individuals who have been or are currently in your shoes. They have a lot of important information and advice to offer.
Welcome and Kind Regards,
Dr Tara
And remember, the last two times she has admitted (in dire situations where I was walking out the door) Her words were…
“I’m afraid you’ll take your love away from me”
And
“I want to love you”
But never….” I love you”
From NS
You can never successfully deal with a narcissist if you believe he loves you in any real way. He NEEDS you. But need is not love. His need is the need that will take and take and take with no concern as to whether his taking is killing you.
jham123: I used to think that my partner loved me but didn’t know how to express it. That he ‘loved’ me but was afraid of getting hurt. That he ‘loved’ me because he said so. That relationship was pure hell, where EVERYTHING was my fault, even traffic jams. Slowly I realised he was a narcissist and began extracting myself from the ‘relationship.’
“You can never successfully deal with a narcissist if you believe he loves you in any real way”
That has helped me to get out and stay out of any dealings with him. Whenever I think that “he loves me’ I immediately tell myself that people do not abuse people that they love. It’s a long road, but the finish line is in sight.
*Woman Freed from Abuse*
1) She NEVER accepts culpability for ANYTHING. This has been the source of many many long discussions between us. I point out glaring facts and she dismisses them…even go so far as to try to make believe she was not even in the room when [insert infraction of choice here] occurred. I have to lay it chronologically and verbatim in concise English before she caves……It is the most exhausting thing I’ve ever been through….and yes, when she walks into the room the recording device is activated
2) She was a absolute A$$ for a week prior to our major blow-out. The day of the blow out….She was just off the Richter scale with abusive banter……and to my detriment I had finally had enough, I finally yelled at her…..”IF you are so unhappy here, then why don’t you leave?”
She called 9/11 and claimed I was abusing her….Fortunately the police with a level head explained to her that arguing was not a crime…and the she could not use them to force me out of my house.
3) She has been blaming me since we got married for everything that is not right in her life…..where we live, why she is not a Movie Star, What kind of car she drives, Why we do not have enough money (She get’s and spends the entire income…..That stopped last month)
She can never have intimacy with me because of things listed above……If only we had [insert possession of choice here] then she could then feel secure and trusting towards me and we could then be intimate…..(thank god for this Blog shedding the light).
4) one of her best friends is an older Woman down the street that has absolutely $h!+ on her multiple times. This woman is a real piece of work and has openly told my wife that She(the woman) didn’t like me the very first time she met me..and despite that little admission my wife continues to cultivate a friendship with that lady….More on that later.
4.5) Number 4 actually address two things….Professional Victim. Yes…absolutely so. I describe it as “Slander”. She runs around and Slanders me to anyone that will lend an ear. This is what she’s done with this older woman down the street AND a ~38ish year old never been married…living with her Dad….girl a few doors down, Elders at the church, Her family, My family……Should I go on?
I have to address this ~38 year old….one day we have having a discussion and this Girl drops in (we were in the garage) This Girl see’s the tone and immediately siezes on the opportunity to jump me (verbal assault..get your mind out of the gutter). My wife stands idly by and allows the attack to continue. I didn’t need saving as I exposed her ridiculous stance and dismissed her…….but again, my wife cultivates a Friendship with this Zagnut as well. All the healthy women in the neighborhood aren’t really in my Wife’s Circle of inner friends.
Not to mention, there is no way in hell I would allow even my best friend or BROTHER to attack any member of my family for one instant. My Wife seemed to glean pleasure and strength from that woman………(one that has never been married, has no kids, No Boyfriends, no other Friends that I can tell…..)
The 38yo has told her openly that she doesn’t feel that I should be “in the house” any longer…(wtf? I’ve been the rock of the family for nearly 20 years…my wife has no job and no money to support herself…yet somehow the 38yo feels that My fam would be better off without me)
The older lady down the street, during the blow-out, I was on the phone with my Wife and we were trying to work things out. Through the phone I hear the older lady walks in the front door….after a brief pause (I’m sure my wife was telling her who was on the other end of the line) I hear clear as a bell the older woman Coaching my wife to say things. She told my wife…..”Tell him to call Mark” (one of the Church elders that does “Counseling”) ( I have my doubts about his abilities to Counsel anyone…he has not impressed me) Then this woman continues with “Hang up the phone……Hang up on him”…….WTF!!!?!??!!?!?
So, here I am talking to my Wife on MY PHONE who is sitting in MY HOME and this woman has the audacity to come in and tell MY WIFE to hang up on me??
And somehow I am being told that it shouldn’t be my decision on if this or the 38yo woman remains as part of my Wife’s friends.
I’m sorry, my Wife has played the victim to these people and they in turn have become Toxic to our Marriage……and I want the Toxin removed……it is as simple as that.
I have made it clear to my wife that if in fact she would like to continue our Marriage, these toxins are not going to be tolerated any further.
And as “Freedom” pointed out earlier, She cannot rectify the situation if the roles were reversed. She cannot answer “How would you solve this issue” When I change the roles and it is me that has Toxic/disrespectful/hateful/detrimental friends advising me to leave her……funny aint it?
If it weren’t so sad and potentially devastating to four innocent wonderful children I might chuckle…but the funny part is how Dr T point out that this is not Rocket Science…these types of women are all the same…and as we all share our experiences regarding the “discussions” the Women all seem to use the EXACT SAME verbiage and tactics……
Since I’ve found this Blog…….we seem not to be arguing…..She knows I am reading it….She knows what I am thinking and……..Two things
1) She is hell bent on not allowing me to see the behavior
2) I am not reacting…..just observing her which is totally throwing her off.
The reason I am not reacting is……I NO LONGER HAVE QUESTIONS that she will continue to refuse to answer……..I UNDERSTAND on my own!!!
A lot of our Friction comes from me wanting to understand ( I am a Physicist…I must know things…it’s in my nature) and me looking to her for answers for certain behaviors…..then she dodges and weaves and spins….in which case I circle and pose more question looking for the AHA moment….
From Her the Aha never never comes…….and Dr. T explains that this would kill the Ego. (not verbatim) This blog is the AHA !!!!! moment.
I get it now….
Sadly, I must do something and make a choice.
Stay….or go
If I stay…I can no longer be resentful and I must deal with the beast…..
If I go…..I’ll be happier (as this has been hell)…but my kids may suffer.
jham123
You wrote:
2) I am not reacting…..just observing her which is totally throwing her off.
The reason I am not reacting is……I NO LONGER HAVE QUESTIONS that she will continue to refuse to answer……..I UNDERSTAND on my own!!!
A lot of our Friction comes from me wanting to understand ( I am a Physicist…I must know things…it’s in my nature) and me looking to her for answers for certain behaviors…..then she dodges and weaves and spins….in which case I circle and pose more question looking for the AHA moment….
From Her the Aha never never comes…….and Dr. T explains that this would kill the Ego. (not verbatim) This blog is the AHA !!!!! moment.
I just wanted to comment that it is amazing isn’t it? How a little sanity is restored just by what you wrote. I so get this.
Oh boy do i have a story relating to #4 in your blog on this subject. about 4 months in with my ex we had a big blow up concerning her ex, who for those 4 months would periodically send her texts ranging from “let’s get together and f–k” to physical threats towards her, me, etc. And like a total schlep, i told her intially that i didn’t like her receiving those texts/emails, but didn’t blame her for them, and offered to put a stop to it myself, which of course she flatly rebuffed. after all… she told me she did nothing to deserve him sending these much unwarranted solicitations/threats, but didn’t want to see him harmed in any way (WTF?). but as time wore on, i got really annoyed as to why this was continuing, and i told her so as each happened. so finally one day – after her supposedly receiving another solicitation for sex – i told her it’s gotta stop or i’m leaving. and we had it out for 3 days straight over this topic. she blamed me of not trusting her, yada, yada. i repeatedly stood my ground and explained it had nothing to do with my trust of her, that my trust of her was implicit, jealousy has nothing to do with it, but it was a matter of good taste, common courtesy toward me, and respect for the relationship she and i had. i emphasized that no good man with a spine, who gave a damn about the relationship with the woman he loved, would EVER be ok with something like this, or would shrug his shoulders and put up with it for 4 months straight. and the most telling reaction i got from her was no response to the question(s) of, “if the situation were reversed and it was my ex saying these things to me, how would you react? and would you put up with it for 4 months like it’s no big deal?” for 3 days straight she refused to answer those very important questions.
of course she had a list of reasons why she “couldn’t” change her number. but she finally gave in and (supposedly) blocked his emails and phone number so he (supposedly) couldn’t contact her. she told me it took over an hour on the phone with her provider to get this done. i found out later just how easily this can be done. it doesn’t take the phone provider, and it doesn’t take an hour.
and now… looking back after being away from her… i can’t possibly tell you with any certainty if the guy ever actually did ANY of it, or if she made it all up, or if it was real and continued without my knowledge, or if she actually followed thru and got rid of him for good. i found out the hard way how much she fabricated and/or distorted anything and everything she could think of to use as the victim and grab attention. there is every possibility that none of it was true, and the possibility that it was her that was bugging him. then again – to go with this post – it also may have been a birds of a feather thing with him. it’s amazing what filters thru your head when you get the chance to step back and see the whole thing, even when you take it piece by piece.
Hi Freedom,
1. When a woman like your ex tells you about other men are pursuing her, it’s oftentimes confabulation, exaggeration or an out an out lie. She does this to make herself feel desirable and to appear to others like an irresistible siren. I had an acquaintance in college who used to go on and on about guys who were “so in love with her.” By chance, I met one of these men at a lecture. He introduced himself to me and I said, “I feel like I know you already, Frank. Dorothy’s told me a lot about you.” Then, I had to explain to this guy who Dorothy was. Turns out, she sat near him in an accounting class and he let her borrow a pen once.
2. “My ex won’t leave me alone/my co-worker won’t stop flirting with me” is a control tactic used to destabilize you, make you feel insecure and psychologically invest in fighting to keep her from being “snatched” away by other alleged would-be suitors. She’s trying to control you with the threat of loss of the relationship. The message is: “If you don’t do as I say, put up with my crap and treat me like a Queen, Scott is waiting in the wings to take me away, so don’t you forget it.” If you’re not afraid to lose her, this (usually) empty ploy falls flat.
3. It could be a matter of projection, Freedom. Perhaps she was harassing and cyberstalking this guy just like she’s currently doing to you. Remember, most of what comes out of this kind of woman’s mouth is projection.
4. These women also like to keep their exes and new prospects in the cupboard for a rainy day. Because this kind of woman has no core sense of self, she needs constant attention and validation for her distortions. If she goes too long without it, she gets panicky and these women can’t tolerate anxiety. If a man isn’t available, these women will use their children in this capacity, which is pretty sick.
5. I think men do become obsessive over this kind of woman. In that, men obsess over, “WTF just happened” and “How can I please her to avoid another attack?” I wouldn’t describe it as “obsessive love,” however. I think a lot of men have convinced themselves that they’re in love—otherwise, their brains wouldn’t be able to rationalize putting up with so much abuse, but is it really love? I don’t think so.
Thanks again for commenting and sharing your experiences, Freedom. I appreciate it.
Kind Regards,
Dr Tara
hey…how do you handle the situation if you realize you are the “prof. victim”…?
First, congratulations on being aware enough to realize that you’ve adopted the professional victim role. That’s a significant first step.
The next step, is to stop engaging and reacting like a victim. This will take a lot of effort and even more self awareness. Hold yourself accountable; don’t resort to the default position of blaming others for your unhappiness or when things don’t turn out as you like. Let go of the false sense of entitlement and the feeling that others “owe” you.
Be honest with your loved ones about your realization and ask them to hold you accountable when you behave like a victim. Say something like, “Hey, I realize that in the past I’ve blamed you and made you feel bad about things that weren’t your fault. This isn’t easy for me, but I don’t want to do that anymore. I want to change and I’d like your help. However, given how I’ve treated you in the past, you’re under no obligation to do so. When I act like (fill in the blank) can you respectfully point it out, so I can stop.”
The thing is you have to mean it and don’t lash out at them when they do this. This is easier said than done of course. You may also want to check out this PDF link, from professional coach, Robert Silverstone, “From Victim to Victor.
Best,
Dr T
I’m gay but have been a victim of professional victim named ********. LOL One girl who would play up her handicap and abused famale status kept lying about guys she hated. At first I believed her but found that it was mostly revenge. She would claim to be in agonizing pain and was given special treatment in our dorm and yet she could be seen dancing the night away ever Thursday and Sat night. Once I got on her bad side (which wasn’t hard to do) she kept making up vicious lies about me and turning the whole dorm against me. Of corse she’s a famale who is not only a past victim of abuse but she is also handicapped (supposedly). Who’s not going to believe her?
She managed to turn a lot of people against me and got her way. She would cry herself out of traffic violactions each time she crashed her car on campus or sit in the Dorm Office and cry about guys she hated but would clam up when ever any of them came by the office (uknown to them that she is trashing their reputations). I’m sure by now she’s got some innocent guy beat up or killed simply by pointing and crying fake tears. Heck she even joined the Vagina Monologues to hide behind. Women like ********* make it hard for women wo are really abused to be taken seriously. She’s ruining it for real victims with her lying.
Hell, I’m gay, always have been, but still as a man I can’t get away from these professional victims. I’ve dated men that are in the closet who after years of mental abuse and being blamed by their wives have turned gay. After years of men bing told how to act, think, feel, act, dress, talk, work and being castrated they come to a gay man like me… but of course by the time I get this big burly blue collar Joe he’s nothing more than a castrated whimp. She’s chewed him up and spit him out (usually with the help of the Human Service Dept. Counselors, and people who think they are helping but arn’t. So many closeted divorced or married men I’ve seen but by the time I see them they are no longer men.
Hi David,
Thanks for reading and commenting. By your description, it seems like you’ve encountered a real piece of work. I deleted her name from your comment as I’d rather my readers not use people’s actual names.
Smear campaigns are typical of the professional victim/bully. The mask of the victim hides the true inner predatory aggressor. People with these issues can be particularly vicious. It’s best to give them a wide berth. Some of them eventually burn their bridges when people in their circles start to compare notes and then they move on to another group of people to twist up. That’s why they fight so hard to have sole control over the truth and other people’s perceptions.
As for abusive women turning men gay, I don’t know if that’s possible. Most research indicates that you’re gay or you’re not. Perhaps the men you mention had been in denial about their sexuality before?
Thanks again for reading and commenting. I appreciate it!
Kind Regards,
Dr T
It’s about time we spread the truth out there. What is needed is more truth about judges who play in these “victims” and their lack of action when it comes to perjury.
I don’t know the statistics on this matter, so can’t write intelligently on it. I agree, however, the women who engage in false accusations against their boyfriends, husbands, exes, etc., usually get off lightly. It’s not right. Even if the man is able to disprove the reputation destroying allegations, he still carries it with him.
What I don’t understand is why there isn’t the same amount of public shame and stigma for the women who are emotionally abusive and pathological liars. When a man does the same thing in a courtroom there’s generally a public outcry. Bad behavior is bad behavior, no matter which sex is perpetrating it.
My hunch is that male judges become distinctly uncomfortable when some of these women turn on the tears in a courtroom or wail, “but who will take care of my children?” If you’re dealing with a person who has a personality disorder like NPD or BPD, the tears usually aren’t tears of remorse. The tears are because they’re upset that they’re being held accountable. The man who is holding her accountable feels bad and then tries to comfort her or dismisses her behavior. This happens outside the courtroom as well.
Some female judges probably feel some kind of gender solidarity. Or excuse the behavior because she (the woman, not the judge) was abused as a child or has mental health issues. You could say the same thing for nearly all men who batter and abuse women, however, most of them don’t get a pass like a lot of their female counterparts do.
A lot of it is:
1) Outdated chivalry.
2) Political pressure from feminist groups.
3) ‘Men are bad, women are good.’
i fully agree, and all the system does is ramp up their disorder by giving them the tools to put you in jail. Its amazing how the courts will just believe someone when they tell their bs story. The question little and file big charges on the wrong people. Women like this should have zero credability when it comes to making any kind of claim or report. Meanwhile you sit in jail waiting to prove your case. Its all a bunch of BS.
Hi Matt,
Thanks for reading! Yeah, love the photo, too. Women with mental health issues who blame men are just GREAT! I subscribed to Steadfast Finances and just in the nick of time–student loans and tax season. One’s a constant and the other’s seasonal torture.
Thanks again for reading and posting a comment.
Dr T
Love the picture! Reminds me of an ex who would only positively interact with me when I treated her like crap. Very difficult for a southern guy who likes to open doors.
Thank you so much my girlfriend has been doing this to me for a year and a half and it is so nice to know that I am not the only one in this boat.